Graham-Kapowsin further demonstrates the "Mythical" in MNC

[CaliNorth]

1 minute ago, cnd123 said:

 

Haha what a homer take. It can't be that WA plays decent football, it must just be that CH sucks...

 

WA state has a proud history of beating "top" California high schools.

 

Sit this one out junior.

Honestly, just from what I see . Why would I want to downgrade a Wa. team . They are West Coast, aren't they ?

[cnd123]

Just now, CaliNorth said:

Honestly, just from what I see . Why would I want to downgrade a Wa. team . They are West Coast, aren't they ?

 

What are your eyes seeing that everyone else missed? CH allowed hardly any points all season and got lit up by GK. CH was a great team and just didn't get it done.

CA teams don't do these post title "bowl" games so we will never know. But again, Bellevue and Eastside Catholic have beaten their fair share of top CA teams in recent history in early season games.

[The Comish]

1 minute ago, cnd123 said:

 

What are your eyes seeing that everyone else missed? CH allowed hardly any points all season and got lit up by GK. CH was a great team and just didn't get it done.

CA teams don't do these post title "bowl" games so we will never know. But again, Bellevue and Eastside Catholic have beaten their fair share of top CA teams in recent history in early season games.

Dear member,

Thank you for joining 2 minutes ago.  We have interns working on a holiday list for member well wishes.  In order to not duplicate our efforts, please notify the staff if you have ever posted under a different screen name.  So far we have verified 17 individual active posters.

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-The Comish

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

13 minutes ago, cnd123 said:

 

Haha what a homer take. It can't be that WA plays decent football, it must just be that CH sucks...

 

WA state has a proud history of beating "top" California high schools.

 

Sit this one out junior.

Welcome!

bgw

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

8 minutes ago, The Comish said:

Dear member,

Thank you for joining 2 minutes ago.  We have interns working on a holiday list for member well wishes.  In order to not duplicate our efforts, please notify the staff if you have ever posted under a different screen name.  So far we have verified 17 individual active posters.

If you are a representative of the state of Washington, welcome to the board as our first such member.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

-The Comish

Dear Comish, 

Kindly go fuck off. 
 

Regards,

bgw

[golfaddict1]

8 hours ago, OldTerrapin said:

The announcers said they had him listed at 245 but they believed he was more

 

His name is Michael Toa and is a Sophomore.. listed at 5'11 245 but he looks more than 245. Crazy athletic for his size.

 

 

 

 

 

Tough choice…  after viewing multiple times I choose the hurdle.  

[GoBigBlack]

1 hour ago, cnd123 said:

WA state has a proud history of beating "top" California high schools.

Do you happen to have that history handy?

[Ararar]

42 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

Do you happen to have that history handy?

The last 10 years Washington’s best (Bellevue.East side Catholic) have challenged Oaks Christian 1-1,Alemany 1-0 Alemany,Serra(gar). 0-1 ,Oceanside 0-1 and Vista Murietta 1-0 Vista played Bullard

[cnd123]

34 minutes ago, Ararar said:

The last 10 years Washington’s best (Bellevue.East side Catholic) have challenged Oaks Christian 1-1,Alemany 1-0 Alemany,Serra(gar). 0-1 ,Oceanside 0-1 and Vista Murietta 1-0 Vista played Bullard

Additionally, and some of these are now over a decade old...

Bellevue beat a high ranked Long Beach Poly, and ended De La Salle's national record longest win streak.

Against Texas, Bellevue lost at Katy and then a few years later beat Euless Trinity in Seattle.

Eastside Catholic beat the undefeated AZ state champ a few years back down in Arizona. On the flip side, I think they also got annihilated by a team from Georgia...

State 4A champ Bothell lost a close one to the Florida champs not long ago.

Pretty solid OOS record overall. Id say WA is fringe top 10 for quality HS football, definitely top 15.

A weird quirk is that the second largest classification, 3A, usually puts forth a stronger champion than 4A. Bellevue, Eastside Catholic, O'Dea are all 3A.

[GoBigBlack]

So you mean Bellevue has a history of beating "top" CA high schools? Even then, Poly was 9-3 and ranked 38th in CA.  Servite knocked them out of the playoffs that year. We finished 10-3 and ranked 37th in CA. De La Salle? Come on man. They were 8-3-2 that year... in Northern California (except MV). 

I'll give credit where it's due, Bellevue was an excellent team back then. I watched both games. But with De La Salle it was a combination of a couple things. First, Bellevue caught them at the right time.  If you didn't break the streak, it would have been Mission Viejo, Clovis West, Clayton Valley Charter, or Palma. Second, that team was loaded with hand picked talent and a couple "5th year seniors." Am I remembering that incorrectly?

You're talking about a mediocre at best Poly team and the worst, literally the worst by a long shot, De La Salle team in probably 40 years... 16 and 17 years ago. 

[cnd123]

Just now, GoBigBlack said:

So you mean Bellevue has a history of beating "top" CA high schools? Even then, Poly was 9-3 that year and ranked 38th in CA.  Servite knocked them out of the playoffs that year. We finished 10-3 that year and ranked 37th in CA. De La Salle? Come on man. They were 8-3-2 that year... in Northern California (except MV). 

I'll give credit where it's due, Bellevue was an excellent team back then. I watched both games. But with De La Salle it was a combination of a couple things. First, Bellevue caught them at the right time.  If you didn't break the streak, it would have been Mission Viejo, Clovis West, Clayton Valley Charter, or Palma. Second, that team was loaded with hand picked talent and a couple "5th year seniors." Am I remembering that incorrectly?

You're talking about a mediocre at best Poly team and the worst, literally the worst by a long shot, De La Salle team in probably 40 years... 16 and 17 years ago. 

Fair points, but you gotta beat who you play. As the other poster mentioned there are other wins against Nor Cal schools like Oaks Christian.

Would love to see the WA champs play teams from the southern private school league like Servite etc.

But with the CA policy on no games after the title all the games are going to be early season and who knows how the teams do in December

[CaliNorth]

1 hour ago, cnd123 said:

Additionally, and some of these are now over a decade old...

Bellevue beat a high ranked Long Beach Poly, and ended De La Salle's national record longest win streak.

Against Texas, Bellevue lost at Katy and then a few years later beat Euless Trinity in Seattle.

Eastside Catholic beat the undefeated AZ state champ a few years back down in Arizona. On the flip side, I think they also got annihilated by a team from Georgia...

State 4A champ Bothell lost a close one to the Florida champs not long ago.

Pretty solid OOS record overall. Id say WA is fringe top 10 for quality HS football, definitely top 15.

A weird quirk is that the second largest classification, 3A, usually puts forth a stronger champion than 4A. Bellevue, Eastside Catholic, O'Dea are all 3A.

I meant no put down towards GK . I didn't watch the game live, and watched it Sunday. From some of the posts I was led to believe this was an overlooked " Bingham Ut. " type team from years back . Top 15 is rarefied status and shouldn't be tossed around lightly . From the countless hours of watching football this season, there is no way I could rank GK that highly . Top 50 is damn good non the less . Maybe GK can do some oos and get more exposure 

[cnd123]

20 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

I meant no put down towards GK . I didn't watch the game live, and watched it Sunday. From some of the posts I was led to believe this was an overlooked " Bingham Ut. " type team from years back . Top 15 is rarefied status and shouldn't be tossed around lightly . From the countless hours of watching football this season, there is no way I could rank GK that highly . Top 50 is damn good non the less . Maybe GK can do some oos and get more exposure 

I get this is all subjective, but look at it this way: Georgia is a top 5 state for quality of high school football teams. Id personally rank the states like this:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. Georgia
5. Ohio

Next tier of states are Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Alabama, Pennsylvania, and maaaybe Oklahoma, Washington, Utah or the Carolinas.

GK just beat the undefeated, 15-0 Georgia largest classification champ...who left little doubt they were the champs by the way if you look at the scores. Their defense held most opponents to single digits. This is in one of the states where HS football competition is at its toughest. There is a reason they were consensus top 5.

GK went out and won by hanging 40 on them.

GK absolutely trampled every team they played in WA, which is a pretty underrated and decent football state. The last time that happened was when Bellevue did it during their run from '04-'10...which means something to those that at all follow West Coast HS football. The top 15 national ranking GK is getting now isn't crazy, as out of WA Bellevue, Eastside Catholic, and even Bothell has been in or around there recently.

You can watch thousands of hours of football and still not really know what is going to happen in these types of games. Maybe both these teams aren't even in the 100 best...or maybe they are both in the top 5? Without many OOS games people go off of the reputation of the state, and reputation of the school. Georgia 7A undefeated champs have reputation. GK had none. 

[OldCoach]

4 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

If you separate the emotion from the decision, its possible to have a 70%+ correct pick rate in any match.  In state or out of state.  Regarding Bixby, their record is not a good gauge of their fit among other top teams.  Three big reasons.  1.  Probably 50+ teams could be 14-0 against the Bixby schedule.  2.  Bixby has no Tier 1-3 wins.  3. Bixby does not have the 3*, 4*, 5* kids that the top teams have.

As far as GK, we know they are about = to Collins Hill, but we don't really know where CH stacks up since they don't have any Tier 1-3 wins either.

We know SJB easily beat Oscar Smith and Miami Central and both those teams ran their state division.

We know Mater Dei rolled DV who is a Top 3-4 team in Texas.  MD won by 40 while NS only beat DV by 7.

We know Servite easily  beat SJB in the playoffs by 3 scores.

We know that Cen10 and Servite gave MD their toughest games and beat 2-3 common opponnents by the same margins.

We know that SFA beat IMG who rolled their other opponnent's.  We know STA beat SFA.

Based on all this, I can state with 70%+ certainty that the top teams are: (In no particular order) STA, SFA  Servite, SJB, Mater Dei, Cen10,  

The next group include: DV, Westlake, IMG, Jesuit, Bergen, North Shore

The next group would include:  Collins Hill, Gk, Bishop Gorman, Hamilton, Saguaro, Chandler, Center Grove

...nice logic.  A couple of random thoughts.

Jesuit is a super team.  They beat STA in Tampa in the closing seconds of the game.  STA is historically one of the toughest teams in FL to beat at their place.  Had this game been played at STA, STA may very well have won the game.  And with Jesuit's remaining regular season schedule, had they lost to STA, I doubt people would have paid nearly as much attention to them.  

I believe there are certain games where the venue location could potentially have a major impact upon the result of a game.  Thus, I think one must be careful when using games not played at a neutral site to judge two teams, especially the home team wins by a close score.  For instance, Miami-Dade County can be a very intimidating place to play.   If Miami Central traveled to play a West Coast team and lost by 10 points or less, I wouldn't bet on that same team beating Central in Miami.  That's not to say they couldn't.   

 

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, OldCoach said:

...nice logic.  A couple of random thoughts.

Jesuit is a super team.  They beat STA in Tampa in the closing seconds of the game.  STA is historically one of the toughest teams in FL to beat at their place.  Had this game been played at STA, STA may very well have won the game.  And with Jesuit's remaining regular season schedule, had they lost to STA, I doubt people would have paid nearly as much attention to them.  

I believe there are certain games where the venue location could potentially have a major impact upon the result of a game.  Thus, I think one must be careful when using games not played at a neutral site to judge two teams, especially the home team wins by a close score.  For instance, Miami-Dade County can be a very intimidating place to play.   If Miami Central traveled to play a West Coast team and lost by 10 points or less, I wouldn't bet on that same team beating Central in Miami.  That's not to say they couldn't.   

 

Why is Miami-Dade such an intimidating place to play?  Are the bloods there shooting out of town players?

Most Ca powers have played in hostile environments.

 

[OldCoach]

17 minutes ago, cnd123 said:

I get this is all subjective, but look at it this way: Georgia is a top 5 state for quality of high school football teams. Id personally rank the states like this:

1. California
2. Texas
3. Florida
4. Georgia
5. Ohio

Next tier of states are Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, Alabama, Pennsylvania, and maaaybe Oklahoma, Washington, Utah or the Carolinas.

GK just beat the undefeated, 15-0 Georgia largest classification champ...who left little doubt they were the champs by the way if you look at the scores. Their defense held most opponents to single digits. This is in one of the states where HS football competition is at its toughest. There is a reason they were consensus top 5.

GK went out and won by hanging 40 on them.

GK absolutely trampled every team they played in WA, which is a pretty underrated and decent football state. The last time that happened was when Bellevue did it during their run from '04-'10...which means something to those that at all follow West Coast HS football. The top 15 national ranking GK is getting now isn't crazy, as out of WA Bellevue, Eastside Catholic, and even Bothell has been in or around there recently.

You can watch thousands of hours of football and still not really know what is going to happen in these types of games. Maybe both these teams aren't even in the 100 best...or maybe they are both in the top 5? Without many OOS games people go off of the reputation of the state, and reputation of the school. Georgia 7A undefeated champs have reputation. GK had none. 

If one looks at things from a per capita standpoint, one could make an argument that Georgia is the top football state in the country.  CA, TX and FL dwarf GA in terms of population.  People rave about Florida as a great football state.  Individual talent..no doubt.  A lot of teams that could consistently win year-in and year-out against the best teams in the country...very debatable. 

One could argue that Florida's overall reputation has been built upon the success of a very small number of teams, ie STA, Miami Central, Miami Northwestern, Booker T Washington.  Outside Broward, Dade and Palm Beach Counties, the rest of Florida is on a completely different plane except for a relatively small number of teams.  I would be curious if California is somewhat similar in that respect with its private school powerhouses.  

[OldCoach]

14 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Why is Miami-Dade such an intimidating place to play?  Are the bloods there shooting out of town players?

Most Ca powers have played in hostile environments.

 

Likely difficult to appreciate unless you experience in person.  

[Sammyswordsman]

Just now, OldCoach said:

Likely difficult to appreciate unless you experience in person.  

 

Classic post.
80's battles at "The Pit"
Bus ride into a dark industrial neighborhood.
Helmet on for protection from rocks, eggs,batteries and pennies.
Future Swordsmen in JAA/PW gear yelling Servite F'ing sucks.
No grass, just grit 3" deep.
Lime lined field.
Horrible lighting.
100+ 5'10" 170 lbs. Troy Polamalu's on speed (figuratively).
4 6'6" 285 lbs. linemen with full beards.
1 6'4" 230 lbs. fullback with 4.7 speed.
Multiple personal fouls on opening kickoff (only two penalties called the remainder of the game).
6'4" 230 lbs. fullback with 4.7 speed left, 6'4" 230 lbs. fullback with 4.7 speed right X 35.
Blood.
Sweat.
Snot.
Puke.
Concussed Mike backer calling defense in huddle while looking through earhole.
First Down.
Concussed Mike backer yelling stop the f'ing run in the huddle instead of calling a front.
Get up from pile with fists, otherwise fingers stepped/stomped on by WR with worn "screw in" metal spikes.
Bite.
Scratch.
Eye gouge.
Mother smack.
Profanity.
Punch to the package at bottom of pile.
Concussed Mike backer yelling just line up and stop the f'ing run.
5 missed 38 yard field goals, neither team can get in the red zone, forget endzone.
A few defensive stops.
A well fought game.
Shake hands.
Do it again next year at Santa Ana Bowl.
Memories that last a lifetime.

[PopsNW]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:17 PM, OldTerrapin said:

Its silly I know but it is what most the country who may be interested in such things looks at, them and USA Today..  GK wasn't even in the top 25 on CP until after this game. Thats the deal with computer rankings you have to wait until all the games get played for it to matter.. mid season its worthless

One thing that a lot of you don’t get is that when you have 14,000+ teams playing 9-15 games, one game can easily and legitimately vault a team up or down more than 25 spots.

25 spots represents about 1/7th of one percent of teams.  When an FBS team moves one spot, that’s 7x the relative movement of a hsfb team moving 25 spots.  

@hardhit struggles with this math also as he concluded that DLS moving up 16 spots after beating the #1 ranked team by 20 (2014) was illogical. 

[PopsNW]

9 hours ago, OldCoach said:

If one looks at things from a per capita standpoint, one could make an argument that Georgia is the top football state in the country.  CA, TX and FL dwarf GA in terms of population.  People rave about Florida as a great football state.  Individual talent..no doubt.  A lot of teams that could consistently win year-in and year-out against the best teams in the country...very debatable. 

One could argue that Florida's overall reputation has been built upon the success of a very small number of teams, ie STA, Miami Central, Miami Northwestern, Booker T Washington.  Outside Broward, Dade and Palm Beach Counties, the rest of Florida is on a completely different plane except for a relatively small number of teams.  I would be curious if California is somewhat similar in that respect with its private school powerhouses.  

Per capita?  
 

IMHO GA degrades itself by resorting to the per capita argument.  
 

leave that to Louisiana, who is actually ahead of GA in that regard 

[Atticus Finch]

10 hours ago, OldCoach said:

If one looks at things from a per capita standpoint, one could make an argument that Georgia is the top football state in the country. 

This is just as stupid as when the genius Craig Haubert said, on Friday night, that if he was a college program and could only pick one state to recruit in he'd pick Georgia.

Of course he'd never win a national championship with that strategy but maybe that was his goal?

[Atticus Finch]

10 hours ago, OldCoach said:

People rave about Florida as a great football state.  Individual talent..no doubt.  A lot of teams that could consistently win year-in and year-out against the best teams in the country...very debatable. 

But you just raved about Georgia above and they have a far worse track record against teams across the country than Florida.

It seems that you're all over the place.

[Atticus Finch]

22 minutes ago, PopsNW said:

@hardhit struggles with this math also as he concluded that DLS moving up 16 spots after beating the #1 ranked team by 20 (2014) was illogical. 

It was illogical probably because that "#1 team" had also lost to another school by 20.

The 14,000 argument is a conjuring trick.

Pops struggles with this stuff because he thinks that an average high school team would, therefore, be ranked around 7,000.

But in reality a 7,000-ranked team is terrible.

[OldCoach]

57 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

But you just raved about Georgia above and they have a far worse track record against teams across the country than Florida.

It seems that you're all over the place.

I stated, "One could make an argument that Georgia is the top football state in the country."  Am not sure how that translates to "I am raving."

Using OOS games as a measuring stick for any state's greatness in football is foolish.  It implies the elite teams participating in the these OOS games are representative of other teams in the state, and that is often light years from the truth.  Imagine handpicking 5 people from 2 different states, having them fight against each, and claiming the state with more wins had tougher people. 

Virginia has produced more NFL Hall of Famers than Alabama.  Would we use that information to claim that Virginia has better football players than Alabama?  Of course not.  But that is no different than what people do when they use a handful of OOS games to make claims about a state's hs football prowess.     

 

[Atticus Finch]

26 minutes ago, OldCoach said:

I stated, "One could make an argument that Georgia is the top football state in the country."  Am not sure how that translates to "I am raving."

And then you didn't make the shadow of an argument and, in fact, the argument you used against Florida is worse for Georgia.